| Summary: This is an interview of Darcy
Lane (names changed at interviewee’s request). Ms. Lane was born in
Athens, Georgia on November 29, 1944. She grew up in a family that
valued education very highly, so after she completed high school in 1962
she moved on to college. She moved around a lot after she married her husband,
Lit, because he was a First Lieutenant in the Air Force and was transferred
a lot. Their first assignment was in Biloxi, Mississippi. Darcy
also spent some time living in the Philippines and Japan while her first child
was eighteen months old and she was pregnant with her second child.
Ms. Lane took a job teaching music in a high school after she and her husband
settled in Poquoson, Virginia. In her interview, Darcy Lane discusses her education opportunities growing up, motherhood, her work experiences, the Civil Rights Movement and integration, sexuality (particularly homosexuality), and abortion. Transcript of interview by Betsy Trimble of Darcy Lane Poquoson, Virginia March 6, 2004 The interview is being tape recorded for clarification of interview information. This release form is saying that you are giving your permission to use the information on a web site devoted to the history of twentieth century women. Would you please read and sign? [Reading and signing the release form] Betsy Trimble: Thank you very much. I think we should start with when and where you were born. Darcy Lane: I was born in Athens, Georgia on November 29, 1944. BT: Ok and when did you move? When did you decide that moving out of Georgia was the thing to do? DL: When I married my husband and he was an Air Force First Lieutenant and we were stationed outside of Georgia. So to be with him I had to move from Georgia. BT: Well that was very kind of you to move with him. DL: Ha-ha BT: Where did you move to the first time? DL: Our first assignment we went to Biloxi, Mississippi. BT: Where did you meet your husband? DL: I met my husband in church where all nice young ladies meet their husbands. I was the church organist and he was attending the University of Georgia and he met our minister of music when he was singing in the chorus over at the University of Georgia and the minister of music found out that he was a Baptist and he invited him to come to church and to sing in our church choir. And he and his roommate did that. And that’s where I met him, when he came to choir rehearsal one night. BT: Was it just love at first sight? DL: Actually no. It was his roommate who hit on me first (clears throat) and his roommate asked me out but I was dating another boy at the time and so I was not interested in developing the relationship. So um I did not actually date him until a year…another year had passed and when I was no longer going with this other boy and I happened to see him one day in the music building and um he asked me “Did you marry that guy yet?” and I said “No, that just didn’t work out.” So he um called me that very night and asked me to go out. And uh but you see I thought he was one of those stuck-up Atlanta boys and so I was very happy to be able to tell him that no I couldn’t go out with him because I already had a date that night. He said “Well what about the next night?” And so I went out with him the next night. BT: Aw that’s very sweet DL: And it was probably not “love at first sight” but we um we became pretty serious pretty quickly. And so…. BT: Well what was it like growing up in Georgia? I’ve heard you know many [things about] the “Southern Belles” down there and, you know, maybe coming out parties or something. How was that where you were growing up? DL: Um, I think there probably in and when I was growing up and when I was a young woman, and I graduated from high school in 1962. And so at that time I think that if you were a part of the society and especially I would say in the larger cities; Atlanta, Savannah, some of the places where they still had a very entrenched um…“Southern woman’s” kind of club, the women’s clubs. They still had debutante balls but I didn’t do that and none of my friends did that and in Athens I don’t think that was such a big thing. It was…there was still an element of that um society and if you were a certain type of…in certain strata of society. I saw it more in college with the sororities. Because some sororities were the ones that those society girls would be invited to join. And um so I kind of saw it follow through in that aspect. Um, I think the idea of the “Southern Belle”, if you mean the gracious southern girl who’s expected to be able to entertain and expected to be able to be gracious and be able to do all that sort of thing, yes, I think it was very much alive. In fact I think it’s still very much alive. At least in a college town, in a university town where there are a lot of things that…social events that are happening. And I don’t think it was a bad thing. I think that that kind of graciousness and being able to, um, make people happy and please people and you know do things for people um I think it’s kind of dying out in certain areas and people don’t care about people as much as they used to. And that’s kind of part of that. It’s not snobbery as much as I think it is a way of relating to each other and being gracious and being, you know, wanting people to come into your home and be comfortable. BT: The “Southern Hospitality?” DL: Yes, the “Southern Hospitality”. BT: Which is still very much alive? DL: Still very much alive, even in Virginia. BT: Even in Virginia. DL: Because your mother is one of the epitomes BT: Even up in Fredericksburg where I am. DL: That’s right and Fredericksburg would be a big place where it would be, yes. But and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. You know I think that in fact that’s something to be admired; a person who can invite people to be with them whether it be a person of your age, who is going to have your friends in, and you may not get out the silver. And um, you know, cook a seven course meal. But yet you want them to come and you want them to be feel welcome in wherever your home is. You want to entertain them and do things for them and say “Gee, I had a great time at Betsy’s house” well I mean, so it’s still that kind of…just how you do it may change. BT: Ok well there are…I’m sure while your mother was growing up, and while you were growing up, there were some evolving roles of women in society. They were, you know, we were slowly making our way to a more liberal, more free, way of living. Did your mother try and keep you back from some of those? DL: No, and in fact she…now my mother stayed at home. She raised her children and she kept the home and she did not work outside of the home although she did go to college and she did have her teaching certificate, and she was certified to teach school. And she taught school for a year but um…once her children were born she did not do that. Now, she told me that she never felt held back. She never felt like she had to do that. But my father worked as a professor at the University of Georgia, and then he also had a cattle farm. So he worked essentially two jobs. He would work until four o’clock at the University and then he would go out to the farm and sometimes not come home until nine o’clock at night if he had a problem with a cow or something. So, my mother felt like he was already out of the home enough and that she was the one that needed to be making the home, providing the stability for the children. You know, they were both raised, they were both Depression people and you’ve heard about that, where, you know, they were just lucky to have a job and felt like they…so she felt like that was her role. Now, when I came along, my father was adamant about education. And he um would never have uh…he made it understood to me from the time I was very young that I was not to consider marriage or anything else until I had completed my education. And he said, you know, he was going to pay for that education. I didn’t need to worry about that. It was just my responsibility to make sure that I did complete that education so that I could…I would never be dependent on someone else. And I think that was pretty um…that was probably a pretty um…liberal view for a man who, you know, who was um born in the early part of the century, in the early 1900s. Because I think sometimes I think a lot of those men thought that it was the man’s place to, you know, and the woman’s place was in the home and she didn’t need and education and she didn’t…but and because she’d always have a man to take care of her. But my husband said you don’t want to be dependent on anyone. You want to have a way of earning a living for yourself. So, you know that, and so I never ever really saw anything different. I always knew that I should be prepared to go out in the world and make my own way if I needed to. BT: Then did you choose teaching for the first job? Was that why you went to school? Did you say “Hey, I want to be a teacher” and then go to school to be a teacher? DL: No, in fact I said “I’ll never be a teacher!” And these words come back to haunt you, they do, but I um I always knew I wanted to do music. You asked me before about…to think about “life-defining” moments. The first “life-defining” moment that I can remember is the first time that I ever saw a piano. We did not have a piano in my home. But my mother took me with her when she went to visit a friend and they had a piano. And I sat down at that piano, and I stayed there that whole time my mother was there visiting. And every time I ever went anywhere there was a piano I sat and quote “played” it. And um I can remember, if they had a book there, I would turn the pages of the book, and then I’d play some more notes, and then I’d turn the page of the book and then I’d play some more notes. I didn’t just bang on it just to hear the sound. So, and that was amazing to my parents because they had no musical training or talent of their own and they couldn’t believe it so. But that was the first defining moment; was the fact that I found out I was interested in music. And so I majored in music. But I majored in Keyboard, because I wanted to play. I was not interested in teaching. So, my choice was to play the instrument and then I learned to play the organ. And that’s why I was the church organist because I had learned to play the organ and that’s where I felt like I was going to make my living was doing that. So, uh, but I didn’t think I would teach, and I didn’t teach, until after, you know, we’d been married twenty-some-odd years before I ever started to teach. BT: So were you in one place for good before you started teaching music? DL: Yes, because, um, what really happened, was that we had moved back to Virginia, and we bought this house, here in Poquoson. And Lit went to Turkey for a year unaccompanied. And I was here with Laura and Alystra. And I wasn’t teaching then. I wasn’t even teaching piano then. Um, because he was gone and I was just trying to get the house set up and do things with the children and everything. And then when he returned he had a three year tour at Langley. And at the end of that tour he decided he would retire and get out because we didn’t want to move, we didn’t want to leave the area. We chose to retire and stay here rather than moving again. And so I thought, “well, you know, I’ve gotten used to nice things, food, and maybe I ought to look around and see about a job because, he doesn’t seem real interested in looking around for a job.” And I thought “we can’t live on his retirement income.” So, um, at the time it, I don’t know, things do just seem to fall into your lap sometimes and, at the time, my neighbor across the street was the drama teacher at the high school, and I had played for her the year before when she did a musical, and she had called me to accompany and play the piano for the musical, which I had done. And so she told me, she said “you know, the um, the chorus teacher is leaving and I think you should, um, interview for that job” [dog barks in the background] and of course I thought “oh, I don’t know” and I thought about it. So, but finally she told me to go down and get an application, and I did, and I brought it home, and I read it, and it had three pages of teaching, classroom teaching, experience that they wanted you to list, and it had three lines of “other” correlating experiences. And I had three pages of “other” correlating experiences and NO classroom so I threw it in the trash because I said “this is ridiculous.” So, um, my other friend, Judy McCormick, who was the guidance counselor at the high school told me, she said “no, you need to fill it out and take it down there because you don’t know what they’re looking for, and you’d be perfect for this job, and I want you to do it, and I’ll write you a recommendation. So, I had my friend Judy write me a recommendation, I had my friend Sandy Catts, who was the drama coach write me a recommendation, I had my friend Gary Lewis, who was the church organist/choir director and director of the Virginia Choral Society, who knew some of my um talents and experiences, write a recommendation, and I turned in my form, and...I didn’t have a teaching certificate, and lo and behold, they hired me. So talk about a life-changing/life-defining moment. That was certainly one. So I thought “Oh, I’ll probably do this for a few years,” and then, um nineteen years later is, that’s how long I did it, nineteen years ‘till I retired in June of 2003. (Thinking) Two thousand and…three, yeah, right. BT: And now you just baby-sit for the grandbabies? DL: And now I’m just the emergency back-up sitter, that’s right. BT: Ok, well, while your husband was away, in Turkey I believe it was, um, well all through your marriage actually and your life, did you have any like economic hardships, you know, like just like times when, you know, you just kind of…I don’t know how to put this…. DL: Well, I think no. I’m gonna tell you that no, we were fortunate. Because my husband and I both had a college education. He (clears throat) was a commissioned officer in the Air Force. So, we had a set salary. And um we had, you know, we had housing allowance and use of the Commissary and we made a sufficient income for us to purchase a car, and you know, live on a moderate lifestyle. Um, I’ve never really…we’ve never really had what I would call a “financial hardship.” We’ve been, we were fortunate in that um…when my father passed away he left money, which we were able to use for our children’s college education. So we didn’t have to scrimp and save like some people have to for that. Um, I wouldn’t say that we always had everything; we didn’t live a lavish lifestyle and wouldn’t have had the money to do so, even if we had wanted to. But, we own our own home, and we bought a nice home, in a nice community. We’ve always owned two cars and um, done…traveled when we wanted to. We…So I would say that we probably live a middle-class lifestyle and it’s, we’ve always lived that. And um, and I wouldn’t say I’ve ever had to worry about money. BT: Have you ever had to travel outside of the U.S. with, if Lit was transferred? DL: Yes, we had a tour of duty in the Philippines. That tour was only seven months and then we went from there up to Japan, and we were stationed near Tokyo. And um, I can’t say I really liked it because I’m really a person who likes my family, and you’re a long way from your family when you’re overseas, and especially when you’re in the Orient. It’s so much farther than even just being in Europe. Um, I enjoyed the cultural experience, I enjoyed being able to buy some things that were nice that were unusual that I would certainly had never of, you know, been able to have in the United States. But, I was happy to come back closer to my family when the tours were over. BT: Was this before or after Alystra and Laura were born? DL: Um, it was Laura was eighteen months old when we went, and I was pregnant with Alystra when I came back. In fact, that’s why I came…my father passed away and I had to return home, and they’d said I was already seven months pregnant. They’d let you come home but they wouldn’t let you go back. So I came home and then after he died I stayed with my mother to have Alystra. So she was born in Athens, Georgia in the same hospital I was born in because I was there with my mom. And Lit had had to go back to Japan. But after he got there he did some research and found out that he could apply for a “hardship” and have his tour there terminated early, which was only a few months early. And um, so he didn’t ever, I didn’t ever go back to Japan. He just, we stayed with my mom and he…Alystra was born in May and he came home in July. So, I would say that was a little bit of a hardship. I was there having a baby and my husband was two thousand miles away in Japan. And that was before the days of cell phones or satellite calls. If you wanted to make a phone call you had to do it by hand radio. And so you had to get transferred through somebody who was a hand radio, and they would call someone over there who was a hand radio, who would call landline…I mean it was a little bit difficult to communicate. So, I probably didn’t talk to him more than, you know, um, twice a month the whole time he was gone. Of course we wrote letters! How, my my, no email, but we actually wrote letters, and um, and kept up with one another. That was…if I had to say there was a time that was really hard in my life that I… it was that time when I was pregnant and not well. I had extremely high blood pressure, so I was not well. My father had passed away, I was with my mother, with my three year old, and pregnant, and my husband was a long ways away. And that was a little bit stressful. BT: While he was away, did you find that your role in the house shifted a significant amount? Or was it still; did he still make money and send it back to you? DL: Oh yeah, I mean, you know, we always had a joint account and um…so the only thing we did differently when he was away, I mean he was…I mean our um check…his pay had always been put into our checking account automatically, and um I actually was the person who paid the bills. Because even when he wasn’t away overseas his job required him to be on alert, where he was gone, you know, five to seven days at the time, then he would be home for like four days, and then he’d be in the office for three days. So, I mean, he couldn’t really pay the bills because his schedule didn’t make it where he was at home on a certain time every month. So, my role had always been the household maintenance, paying the bills, taking care of things in the house. And so the money was always available to me because we just had a joint checking account. When he was overseas, he just had a separate account and he had an allowance sent to him so that he got part of it to have for himself, and I had the rest for the household maintenance. I mean, that’s just the way we chose to do it, and that seemed to work for us the best. BT: It’s a good system, seemed to work… DL: Yes, it works, that’s right. BT: How did you adapt to the changes in all technology over the years… DL: Oh goodness… BT: as they just keep coming quicker, more quickly, and more quickly. DL: Well, like your mother, the cell phone’s a wonderful invention right...? BT: Right… DL: Um, yup, like that. Um, and I, of course, as a teacher, I had to learn to use the computer. You know, that was pretty much forced on you. So I uh had to learn some computer proficiencies, but I didn’t really use it in my classroom because in music, uh, you can use it, there are ways to use it, but it just wasn’t appropriate in my classroom…in chorus. Now if I had had a classroom where I could have had those keyboards you know, that you can put it with the midi and do a lot of that kind of stuff then I probably would have learned a lot more about, um, the music programs for computers. But, I can do email, you know, and I can go on the internet. And, I use that. I probably don’t use it as much as a lot of people, just because I didn’t have to. I think women who might have worked in offices where they might have had to learn, oh billing techniques and a lot of things, and like networking with other things where they really had to learn a lot of computer use are more proficient than I am. It doesn’t bother me, I mean I think I can use it well enough that I can do what I have to do with it. But, um, I wouldn’t call myself really “technologically advanced.” Um, I can’t program the VCR. I have to have my daughter come over and set up the VCR…you know, when you hook it up to the TV and all. I just don’t, don’t worry about it. But always figure, you know, when I left home…I lived at home while I went to college just simply because being a music major it was better for me to live at home. I could practice at home, I could do a lot of things at home because in the days when I went to college, those were the days when young ladies had to be in the dorm my nine o’clock at night, and you had a house mother, and you, you know, you had to be in the dorm. And so, I lived at home and I didn’t have quite those restrictions…and I could go down to the church and practice the organ and it would be ten o’clock coming home, and it wasn’t a problem. But, um, so, um…wait a minute where was my train of thought there? I was going to tell you something about that… (Thinking and humming)…Oh! And so I didn’t know anything about cooking when I left home because really I hadn’t done any cooking with my mother because I was always practicing. It was always such a good excuse, you know, I could never help cook, I could never clean up the dishes because I always had to practice, and I always had to do it then. So what my mother said, she figured that anybody that was a Phi Beta Kappa could read a cookbook. So, I figure that anyone with a college education a can at least read the manual and figure out the VCR. I just don’t choose to do it (said with a smile). BT: That’s my mother’s excuse as well. She likes to use that one. So was it a bit of a shock taking your daughters to college and noticing that boys lived down the hall from them and they didn’t need to announce…. I remember my father telling me that when he would go visit my mother he would have to yell “Man on the hall” before he could even enter the hallway. And my college experience I lived across the hall from them. So, was that a bit of a shock to you? DL: Um… BT: Did you adjust well to that...? DL: Oh I don’t think it bothered me. I knew that, um, you know, they had co-ed dorms. Laura, chose to live on a dorm where they were co-ed by floors, so she didn’t have the man right on the hall. But they, of course, had visitation, and they had certain hours that were open and the guys would come in and visit and all that. But after a certain time at night no guys were allowed on the hall. She preferred that, she just didn’t want to worry about whether she was in her nighty or whatever. In, you know, when she went down the hall to use the restroom or whatever. But, um, and I don’t remem…then by the time Alystra went I don’t remember about that building. I think that that building was also co-ed by floors. But, you know what? No, I just didn’t…it didn’t bother me, I didn’t think that they needed to have quite the restrictions we had while I was in college. It’s not that I think they should have those restrictions. I think that the problem comes in, you know I think it makes them very alone, very lonesome. I mean, really nobody cares a hoot about them. I mean, and nobody cares that they’re in or out. I used to say to Laura, “You need to make sure you have a friend who knows if you’re going to be coming in late. I mean, you could be, you know, lying hurt in a ditch, and nobody would wonder why you weren’t in your room.” And I said, “To me, it’s not the issue that you might be off somewhere doing something you shouldn’t be doing.” The issue was “does anybody care if you’re home in your bed when you’re supposed to be? Does anybody care if something’s might be wrong? And say “Gee, I wonder why my friend’s not home yet?’” You know, so, that’s the thing I think. I think it’s just, instead of giving people so much freedom, it has isolated them. Because nobody knows, or seems to care, about them. BT: Well, backtracking a little bit here, when um…what kind of impact did it have on your life with the integration coming into play? DL: I would say that was a big…yes, see because I was right there at that time. Because I was a student at the University of Georgia when the first two black students were, um, entered in the University of Georgia. And that was a big, um, big thing. I went to school at an all white, um, high school. It had not been integrated in Athens at the time. So, I did see that come about we did not have riots, etc. at Georgia. I mean I think it was handled, it was past the time when they tried…of course you’ve seen all of the news reels about Alabama with George Wallace and all that sort of thing. We did not have that sort of thing, and I think because they saw how bad that was and, um, so it was a peaceful integration. But I, I mean, I’ll be honest that we didn’t have anything to do with them. You know, when the black students came on campus, we didn’t socialize with them. I can even vividly remember when we went to a football game, uh, at Georgia one time, you know students didn’t have reserved seats, so there was just a student section and you showed your ID and you got in the student section. Well there was like a great, um, seat, bunch of seats, and there was nobody sitting in them. And this guy sitting in front of us started to go in a sit down, and he looked and he saw that he was about to sit next to the black student, and he jumped up like he’d been scalded, and got up, left that. Well, I was with Lit, we were going to the game. He said “Those are two good, those are good seats, I’m not wasting good seats.” He walked in and said “Anybody sitting in these seats? Mind if we sit here?” And we sat down. Now we did not converse with the man, you know, with the student. And I felt, at the time, he was sitting right by himself, no friends at all. You know, the NAACP had paid their tuition, had paid for them to come to the University of Georgia. I’m sure that they were glad of the opportunity for the education. I’m sure they were glad of the money because it was probably helping their families, but my how lonesome they must have been. Because, I mean, that boy was sitting there right by himself. And you know that he had that experience in every class, all around the campus, and I don’t know where he lived, because I don’t think he lived in the dormitory. So, um, it was a def…, you know, it was an interesting era. It didn’t really affect me personally because of course I went right from college, with my husband, into the military. I mean, I married Lit two weeks after I graduated, and we, um, and then we went into the military where there was no segregation. If there was any kind of segregation it was between officer and enlisted. And we had many officer friends who were black. So, you see, it never was an issue with me. Because it just, I went from the all white environment to just having a few black people integrated into the University which I really didn’t come into contact with much, into a totally integrated situation, where it was accepted, and it was expected, and nothing would ever have been done differently. BT: So, what, um, when you were raised, was it more just kind of “stay away from black people?” Or was it a racist… DL: Oh, they were totally, um, well, you know… BT: I mean I can see it would be more dramatic in the South… DL: Yes. BT: …than in the North, but. DL: Um, it was I think at the time more dramatic in the South. Of course, that’s where they had the separate bathrooms, and they did have separate bathrooms. I mean, I can remember having the “colored restroom.” I didn’t ride the bus much, but in the bus systems, they had to sit in the back, and white people sat in the front. And, um, you know, we just, we weren’t, I mean I never thought anything about it. It wasn’t an issue to us. And you look back, and it’s just like slavery. I mean, I don’t think people meant to be cruel. They just didn’t think of it as being wrong. We didn’t think about it being wrong because it just always had been. And I guess that’s a terrible thing to say. It’s probably terrible to say “couldn’t you tell how bad that was for people to be, you know, demoralized like that?” Um, I guess we just, you know, it’s just the way it was. And we didn’t think anything about it. BT: So at your school was there any outright violence towards the black people…? DL: Not at the University, not that I knew of. I was not aware of any violence, no. BT: Integrated, but just separated by themselves? DL: Yeah, I think that it was just, I mean, I think that there was probably a lot of emotional effect on the black people because the white students didn’t have anything to do with them. They just wouldn’t have anything to do with them. I mean, they’d sit in a classroom and there’d probably be three or four desks around them where people just wouldn’t sit. Or if they did sit there they didn’t speak to them, didn’t talk to them. I don’t know how the professors treated them, I never really had a class with a black student. Now, pretty soon after the integration, I don’t really know what year that was, but, um, more and more black students came and we did begin to have several in the music department. Um…seems to me that in the music department it was a little more accepting. I don’t know why, but we didn’t seem to, I mean, I never knew of any problem. BT: Where were you when Kennedy was shot? DL: Ok, I was in…a sophomore music theory. I remember it quite distinctly because it was one week to the day before my birthday. It was November 22. And, um, it was, you know, it was, we’d never experienced it, I never experienced anything like that. We hadn’t had a president assassinated. And, um…I do, I think personally, it didn’t affect me in a political way as much as, you know, the fact that by that time television was so prevalent. I mean, you could, that’s what we did, we sat and we watched it on TV, because, I mean, you could see everything that was going on. Everything about the, um, you know, the funeral, everything that they talked about, the swearing in of Johnson as the new president. It was all just right there in front of you, and I think that was probably one of the first instances of history in the making right in front of you on the TV. Now, we’re so used to it we watch complete wars being, you know, held in front of our eyes on TV. It’s almost desensitized us to it. But, I remember the fact that when Kennedy was shot, it was just so, um, it was so unusual. We hadn’t, we weren’t, we were, it was so unexpected, we weren’t used to any kinds of violence toward out national leaders. And, I think now in today’s “terrorist aware” society we’re a lot more worried about that, or a lot more conscious of it. But then it was, it was really shocking. And of course, he was a young and handsome president, you know, that kind of, added to it, but it was certainly, um, it was very, I mean I remember to this day how it was that, you know, somebody brought a radio into class and said “the president’s been shot” and I mean, we were there listening to it and then they made the announcement that he had died. It was just so, so shocking. Because it was just, you know it just can’t happen. I’m sure it’s like how people felt when the airplane hit the towers and they said “this is America, this, I mean, this can’t be happening.” So, um, and I think it, the thing that being able to watch it for the next few days on TV because they cancelled classes and everything else. It was just, um, it was weird. BT: Well, when you were overseas with your husband, and when he was…was he fighting in the wars? DL: No, well, Vietnam was still going on, it was still sort of winding down, but he was never in Vietnam because his duties were as a communications officer, so therefore he was behind the, he was not there, he was making sure the communications were in order and that they could talk to whoever they wanted to talk to and all that sort of stuff. So we were not on the front line. But the Vietnam War was still going on when we were over there. Um…I think that um, it showed me that Americans are not universally well-liked. And, um, especially in Japan, even though the World War had been over for, you know, twenty years, yeah, more, twenty-five years, that there were still some hatred of Americans. Because of just lingering from the World War. And I remember, you know, they used to have to sign up if they were going to have demonstrations outside the gates. But it used to tickle me, because one day, you’d go out of the gate and see that they were going to have a demonstration, um, and they would be yelling “Dirty Yanks go home! We don’t want you here!” and “Get out of Japan!” And then the next day they’d have a demonstration “Don’t close U.S. bases!” because, and the reason they didn’t want that to happen was because they were required by law to hire Japanese nationals, like in the PXs near the Commissaries and all that. They had to hire Japanese nationals. And so, “We need your money!” “You’ll ruin our economy if you leave.” So, you know it’s just kind of like they hated us, but yet they loved our money. So, I didn’t ever know that until I was actually stationed overseas. BT: So were you ever in fear of just safety? DL: No I was never in fear of my personal safety. And I traveled. I used the metro. We went out some, you know, I was I had friends and we would want to go shop in Tokyo, so we’d get on the metro, the rapid transit, and go down to Tokyo. You know it’s like everything else: The people themselves that you would see on the street that you would talk to were very helpful, very friendly. They would want to practice their English. Especially the young people would want you to talk to them, want to talk to you because they wanted to practice their English. But, it was more the, you know, kind of political stuff the political people that would arrange these rallies and everything like that that were trying to make a statement and all that kind of stuff. I felt like the Japanese people themselves were very, you know, they were just people. BT: Well another important event that happened to a lot of Americans was the shooting of John Lennon. Did that affect you in any way? DL: No, because, actually you see, I was way past that Beatles thing. I wasn’t even old enough to be, you know, into the Beatles when they were young and when they came on. Because I was already married, and you know, not, I hadn’t had children yet, but I was already settled into a lifestyle that just, um you know, I wasn’t a teenybopper anymore and that’s who really they, when they first came out. Now, now I like the Beatles music. There’s some of their stuff that was very creative. As a musician I can look at it and call it very innovative, and um, some of the stuff that they’ve done I really like a lot. But I was never into that Beatle-mania, so when he was killed I was sad, but it wasn’t a personal loss to me. Neither was Elvis. It wasn’t a personal loss to me because when Elvis came along, or when Elvis was, um…you know, I did listen to Elvis music but he was never a big…I was never a big Elvis fan. BT: So kind of in conclusion of this whole interview, do you feel as though over your entire life you’ve had control over it? Because the understanding that I’ve been having is that women have been (phone rings in background) struggling with their differences in their roles in society? And also did you go against the quote “social norms” of Athens or anything like that? Were you a big rebel or anything? Because your father was so “you’re going to college, this is what you’re going to do….” DL: Ok, um…I would say that in general I have had complete control over my life and what I wanted to do. You know, I think you are guided by influences, whether it be your parents, or your peers, or your husband, um, or even your children. I think that you make decisions that sometimes you make a decision that might be different because of what you know that these people want you to do. But I don’t believe that I’ve ever done anything, I don’t think my life has taken a way that I didn’t like, I mean, that I didn’t want to do. Um…and some things that I’ve done have been more or less rewarding than I thought maybe they would be, but I mean, at all the important junctures in my life I think it was the right decision to choose music as what I wanted to study in school. I think it was the right decision to marry the man I chose to marry. We’ve been married thirty-seven years and we still have a successful marriage. Um, I think that it was the, um, right decision to stay home and raise my children. Because I like being at home. I didn’t have a desire to have a career where I would be the person in charge or, I mean, I never wanted to be a career woman in the sense of being a lawyer or a doctor. I mean, you know, if I had wanted to I think I would have done that. But I didn’t ever really desire to do that. And I didn’t have to financially. We were fortunate in that I could stay at home and raise my children and we didn’t have to, you know, we didn’t have to have a second income. Um…when I did choose to go to work, it, as I said, it sort of fell into my lap but I…it was more rewarding than I ever thought it would be. Um…not just the teaching, but the teaching of music, and having students and being able to introduce them sometimes to music and hope that they would love it as much as I do. And I used to tell my students in class: “What I hope for you is that you will love music as much as I do. Not that you will major in music, not that you will be a professional musician, but that, but in some way you will want music to be a part of your life for the rest of your life.” Um…so that was what I wanted to do, and that they would have a remembrance of their musical experience in high school as being one of the, you know, best parts, of their young lives. And um…when you’re a music teacher in high school you generally teach kids for four years because if they really love it, they stay with you. So, um…it really was, I began to see that I did have an influence on some young lives, just simply because, um it was like raising your children; you saw them every day during school, for one hour, for four years. And a lot of times you developed a relationship with them that gave you some chance to maybe say something that might affect them to go in and do something, be something, grow up and be somebody worthwhile. So I mean, I don’t of course think that I ever was some magnificent in that way, but I did see that you have a chance to say some things to some kids that maybe would help them to just be productive members of society, to take control of their own lives and to do what was best for them. BT: Well my final question has to do with the evolution of society, and things that, just things that have been brought to light over the years; such as the coming out of gays and lesbians, that kind of thing, and more and more sex on television. Things that were not talked about for so long that are coming out. How did you react to the changing and the openness of people? DL: You’re flipped over there on your microphone…. BT: Ok DL: Um…ok, let me think about that one for a minute. Well, I think personally that, um there’s too much sex and violence on TV. I mean, you know, as an adult it doesn’t affect me, you know, I can just turn it off or not pay any attention, but I think that it has desensitized young people. Because, sad to say, I don’t think parents are monitoring what the children watch. Um…and I think that um, or I think that they think that they can watch it too early. And I don’t think a twelve year old ought to see some of the things that are on some of the TV programs that I know they stay up and watch. Um…now I’m not a big fan of not letting people read certain things and not letting people see certain things. You know, I’m not a big fan of censorship, I just think that sometimes you need to show a little bit of commonsense. I mean, it’s common sense that a young person who’s not even a teenager yet, is not mature enough to evaluate and understand adult subjects. And I think what it does is it just makes them where they’re so used to it they just think that it’s just normal. And I don’t think that they way they show things on TV. I don’t think that’s normal people’s lives. I mean I don’t know anybody that acts like that, except on TV. I mean, you probably don’t even know anybody that acts like that. BT: The occasional character, but that’s about it. DL: The occasional character, right. I just think that yet it makes it seem normal because it’s on TV. Just because it’s on TV. So…I think we’re reaping and I think we’re reaping the affects of that in the schools, in society, I mean, I just, I don’t know the answer, except that I just don’t think it’s necessary. I just really don’t think it’s necessary. Um…So, you know, every generation is gonna do a little more than the previous generation. Every generation, things are gonna change a little bit. But every now and then you have a little throw back, you know, and, I know, I remember, now it’s not considered proper child-raising to spank children, you know. And I think that’s another thing that’s gonna come back to bite us in the butt too. But, you know, I can’t ever actually say I remember being spanked. I think my mother might have spanked me. I remember my daddy talking to me. I would rather he have spanked me, but you know, because he would sit me down and we’d have to talk about what I did, and talk about it. But, um, I think that that’s good to a certain extent, but sometimes I think a child just needs to know who’s in charge. And, I think sometimes that they’re so much wiser than sometimes their parents are. And they’re certainly can outlast you. So…um at any rate, I think…I’m just not sure it’s for anybody’s good for all the sex and this. And as far as homosexuals and their role in society…I don’t think it’s a sin. Like I know the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin, but remember that’s the Bible being written by people at that time who thought that mental illness was being because you were in control of, the devil was in control of you. That was the devil in your body, mental illness. I just don’t think that it’s…I just don’t think it’s the way men and women were meant to interact, and somehow these wires have gotten crossed, and I don’t…I’m not sure everybody who thinks they’re gay really are. Do you know what I mean? I think that it’s kind of a thing that they just, um, I think they’re confusing what could be a loving friendship. I mean, I love a lot of women. I love your mother…a lot. But I don’t love her in a sexual way, but I love her in a way that I want to kiss her and show affection to her. But I don’t confuse it with the physical love that I have for my husband or that I would have with a man. And I think that somehow, and I don’t know why, that some people have confused the kind of love that they have for someone. Um… I’m not going to judge it. I know a lot of people who are really rabid about it, pro and con. It reminds me of what happened during the integration, and how some people, you know, blacks were inferior people as far as they were concerned. I mean they would tell you, “Well everyone knows they’re inferior. Everybody knows that, you know, they’re not really, they don’t have a soul.” That’s what they’d say. I mean, you know, so I think it’s, I think that, I don’t want to say that they are sinful and immoral people. I don’t think that what they do it really…I don’t really think its right. I don’t condemn them so far as to say they’re going to hell because…I just think that they’re not, that they’re cheating themselves of a good relationship because somewhere, how, or another they’ve gotten themselves messed up. But, but you know what, in another fifty years someone might say, “Oh that is such a stupid…” you know, they might say what I just said was so wrong, you know. We know things like this in context with where we live. Which is what you’re doing this paper about. How things change, and how people think about things. So, I mean, I know that my mother, I’ll never forget this story she told. She was with her husband, with my daddy somewhere, and she saw these two men, and they, um…I don’t know, she said something to my daddy about it and he said “well, they”…something about that they were homosexuals and she says, “I don’t believe that’s such a thing. I don’t believe there is any such thing as that. Do you? I don’t believe such a thing.” Because you wouldn’t have even talked about it, and my mother didn’t even know that such a thing was possible. She was just dumbfounded, you know, so I think that, you know, as we go through life, and things change, you know, things, just like metal illness used to be considered being…having the devil in you, and now we know that it’s an illness. So, I mean, maybe homosexual sexuality will be considered a “normal” avenue for humans to follow in years to come it will just be the faithful people who thought that was wrong. They were just, you know, out of it, they just didn’t know any better. So, I don’t know. Maybe it will be that way…. To me, it doesn’t seem, just kind of behavior that I can’t buy into, that I can’t see. BT: Well are you more of a just an accepting, liberal, kind of person…. DL: I wouldn’t say I was as accepting about it as I just, um, let me see, how do I put it, I’m probably one of those people who just ignores it. BT: Ignorance is bliss? DL: Probably. I mean it doesn’t affect me personally. And so, I haven’t had to take a stand on it. So I haven’t taken a stand on it. It’s just not something I want to make a decision about. So I don’t. And that’s probably the sign of a weak character (both laugh), I don’t know. But, so, it’s just like abortion. I haven’t had to take a stand on it. Is it morally right? or is it morally wrong? Or is it….you know, I hate the thought that women, you know, can’t have…that’s such a life-changing event, having a child, and I hate the fact that a woman couldn’t have control of a decision like that. You know, on the other hand, there’s all this unwed teenager mothers who really don’t need to be raising these children. We’ve got all these children. I mean, because, they’re not themselves old enough to…mature enough to parent, most of them, and yet they’re just babies having babies. And so, I don’t think that’s right either. So, you know, there’s a lot of things in life I haven’t made a decision about because I haven’t had to. It hasn’t been something that I’ve had to personally take a stand on. But I think, I guess a lot of people are like that. BT: Probably, yeah. Until they’re actually confronted with it, it’s not really…. DL: Right, until they have to make a decision about it themselves, you know, they just kind of say, well I don’t know what I think about it, because they don’t want to…so I guess I don’t know what I think about it, because I haven’t had to. BT: Well, thank you very much for taking the time out to speak with me today and talking about your life and how you think about things. Um…and I will definitely let you know how this paper turns out. DL: Good, good. BT: Thank you. |