| Summary: This is an interview of Nancy
Kinn. Nancy Kinn was born on October 24, 1917 in Springdale, Pennsylvania.
She went to a local grade school for grades first through ninth and then
attended high school with students from the surrounding areas. Ms.
Kinn graduated high school in 1935 and entered Allegheny College in Meadville,
PA the same year. There she majored in economics and earned her BA
degree and a certificate in secretarial work in 1939. After that she
worked for Jones and Lockland Steel for a year and a half before leaving
that job and working as a secretary for Talon. Ms. Kinn worked at Talon until
1942, when she joined the WAVES (Women Appointed for Volunteer Emergency
Service) and attended Smith College to learn Navy communications. She
worked as a WAVES for about three years before she applied for an honorable
discharge because she got married and had her first daughter, Janie.
She did not work after that until after her husband died. In her interview, Nancy Kinn talks about what it was like living through World War Two; particularly what it was like dealing with rationing and working as a WAVE. She also discusses her education (including her time at Smith College for the WAVES) and work opportunities. Transcript of interview by Amanda Neyenhouse of Nancy Kinn Nancy Kinn: Nancy Kinn, that's K-I-N-N. Amanda Neyenhouse: When is your birthday? NK: October the 24th and I will be 87 this year. AN: Where were you born? NK: I was born in Springdale, PA. AN: What did your parents do? NK: My mother was a homemaker, my father, when I was a baby, I believe he worked for the PA railroad then he bought a dairy and he delivered milk to people’s homes every day. Sundays and holidays. AN: How long did he do that for? NK: Oh garsh, I don’t know how many years daddy had that. Well your grandfather and I were married and he had just sold the business shortly before we were married in ‘44. AN: So you grew up in PA, what was that like? NK: It was a small town, there were maybe three thousand people. I went to grade school, we didn’t have kindergarten like you folks have. Went to grade school and then we went, grade school was first through ninth. Then we went to high school. And we had our own high school, beautiful building, it was built just before our class went into it. We had people coming, young folks, our classmates came from towns surrounding. Mining towns. And they were bussed in, it wasn't a regional school or anything, it was just the high school. We had some pretty nice teachers, we had some good times. My best friend, her father was superintendent of school. And our classes weren’t all that big. So that’s where I went to grade school and high school. AN: What year did you graduate high school? NK: 1935. AN: Where did you go to college? NK: I went to Allegheny College in Meadville, PA. AN: How was that? NK: I entered there in 1935 and graduated in 1939. It was a liberal arts college. I majored in economics. The first two years we did just the general subjects, introductory. And then we majored our junior year. And I majored in economics with a side of secretarial work. I got my certificate in secretarial work plus my BA degree in 1939. AN: Was it a co-ed school? NK: Yes, It was co-ed. AN: How many students were at Allegheny? NK: At that time, I forget how many were there, I think it was about 700 students. It was up, we used to say, there was Slippery Rock College, and that was a teacher’s college. Then the next school up the road was Grove City which was, um, more or less like Allegheny. Only at Allegheny it was a little more prestigious, is that the word! And, many of my classmates came from Erie, PA schools, Pittsburgh schools and surrounding. AN: What was your favorite part of college? NK: Ha-ha, well, I had a lot of favorite parts. I belonged to a sorority. We had sororities and fraternities and at that time they were an integral part of our college. They took care of the activities that most colleges today take care of. They had inter-fraternity dances, we had Pan-Hellenic dances. We had frat parties and sorority parties. We had fraternity serenades and sings, so fraternities and sororities in those days were very important. And, as we found out after we graduated they were an introduction to people that could have helped us in getting a job or in society in general. AN: What sorority were you in? NK: I was in Alpha Chi Omega, we had six sororities, we didn’t have houses, we had sorority rooms and the men had frat houses. We had all the top ones, I think it was six or seven. And they had some very nice parties too at times! (Ha-ha) And intramurals, and so it was, we had a good social life. We made some very dear friends and we just had a very good college life. Of course, now fraternities and sororities aren’t quite as important as they were then because that was how the social life was done for the college. Instead of the college having to provide dances and different activities why the fraternities and sororities took care of that. AN: Did a lot of people go to college when you were young? NK: No. Very few of us from high school. In fact, there were times when we were considered snobs because we went to college. Many, many of my high school classmates came out of high school and got married and had children. Some of them went to secretarial school. I forget the percent in my class that went to college. But, it wasn’t very big. AN: Was it much less common for a woman to attend college? NK: Uh, it depended, I think so. I mean, I don’t recall now, I never kept track of how many percentage wise of men and women that went. But I know that when I went to college, I think the male population was considerably more than the female. AN: What was it like growing up right after W.W.I? NK: I was born in ‘17 so that had no effect on my life, that I knew of at the time ‘cause I was just a little kid. And, we lived well, I mean, supposedly we were in the, it wasn’t society as we know society—high society and all, but my parents and their friends were considered the top of the line in the town that we lived in. It was a small town, it was a working town, and there were foreign immigrants there, but not many. And they had their own church and their own area. But, we were considered higher up in the town. My father was active, he was on the school board for many, many years. My mother, as I said, was a home-person. She had been a school teacher in her day, before she was married. But she never did it after, that I know of. In fact, she just raised my sister and I. AN: What did you do after college? NK: After college I worked for Jones and Lockland Steel in the purchasing department. That’s the job I told you my family’s friend got me. I worked there for, I guess, a good year, year and a half. And a friend of mine called me from Meadville where I had gone to college. And she had stayed there and worked for Talon. She called one day and said there might be a job opening, “Would you be interested?” So I went up and interviewed and I was hired and I worked in the engineering department of Talon which was most interesting because the first year I worked there I was doing secretarial work. And I was picked to go to each engineer for two weeks while their immediate secretary was on vacation. So I got the whole bailiwick, even from the head of the department down. It was quite instructive and very interesting because it was not only the metal that's used, it was the tape and the components for a zipper. AN: What is Talon? NK: Talon manufactures zippers, fasteners as they’re called. They used to be called zippers. AN: So how long did you work there? NK: I worked there until 1942 until a friend of mine said, “Nancy, lets go join the WAVES.” So we went and we were interviewed, and I was turned down because, as I found out later, I hadn’t met the weight requirement. I was quite a bit underweight. So I said okay, it was a good idea. We didn’t want to join the Army, we just didn’t. And furthermore, it was getting to the point where all the guys were leaving and there was nobody left to date! So we decided we’d join the WAVES. And we did, as I said, I was turned down and I went back to Meadville one Sunday after being home for the weekend. There was a telegram on the mantle saying I was to report the next day to the recruiting office in Pittsburgh. So I called my father and said, “Meet me in Pittsburgh, I’ll take the next bus back.” And I did and I was sworn in. I think that was in August. We were sworn in, and I think I reported to Smith College the following November. Hold on a minute, I have the dates…. AN: So you went in October of ‘42? NK: Yeah, October of ’42. AN: You went to Smith, what was that like? What did you do while you were there? NK: We marched everyplace, we had classes and I don’t even remember all of them now. I remember the one I couldn’t get into was Electricity. We had to learn about electricity, but they taught us Navy, Navy stuff. And of course, when we left there we were…I went in as a Seamen First Class and we came out as Ensigns. Then, in February we reported to Philadelphia Navy Yard. That’s where we were sent. We replaced, I think there were sixteen or eighteen of us sent to Philly and that number of men left to go to the Pacific. We were in communications, that’s what they were teaching us. And of course at Smith we learned which planes were good and which were bad and all the Navy stuff. And, as I said, we got there and when we graduated we were all sent basically back to our home districts. Now some of the girls that lived in Philadelphia or environs, they weren’t too happy, they wanted to see the world. Which we all did, but it worked out and eventually we were all promoted. They used to have mass promotions called All-Navs. And if you were, like we were Ensigns we were promoted to Lieutenant Jr. Grade and I came out as a Lieutenant Sr. Grade when I finished. And some of the girls stayed in and came out in higher ranks, but most of us…I was in charge of the code room. I was the officer in charge for, I think it was a year, year and a half. That was quite a responsibility. It was, of course we would get male officers in to teach them coding and decoding. AN: So you taught male officers? NK: Yes, and some of them weren’t too happy to be taught by WAVES. But anyhow, we replaced sixteen or eighteen men and all but one of them came back after their tour of the Pacific. I guess they were out there for two years, I don’t remember now. All but one man, he was killed. So it was quite thrilling and as a watch officer if a message came in, I think it was red, only the watch officer could open it or decode it. And with that, no matter what time of the night or day it came in it had to be done immediately. But, one of the other officers couldn’t do it, it had to be the watch officer. And then you had to seal it in an envelope and take it to the Captain or the Admiral. The Admiral was a lovely man, he never, if we had to take them over at night he was there in his bathrobe and pajamas and was very gracious and very nice. The Captain was a, he was kind of a, he was true Navy. Boy, he let you know who he was. He got really up on his horse if everything wasn’t…. One time I got called in because I had taken a message in an envelope and brought it back and the next day my Captain called me in and he said, “Nancy, you’re in trouble.” I said, “Why?” and he said from now on you have to take envelopes to put them back into after you’ve given them the message and seal it. And of course you had to have a Marine or top security to take you to the Captain or Admiral’s quarters. So it was quite interesting, I mean, of course, we stood watches. We worked from 8-4 for four days then had forty-eight hours off, then we worked from 4-12 for four days then had forty eight hours off. And we worked from 12-8 in the morning for fours days and had forty eight hours off. So it wasn’t, you know, then one time they decided that we had to work twelve hours a day, but that didn’t go over very big. And we had a very great bunch of people I worked with, some I kept as friends over the years, of course a few of them have passed away, but it was a great. Then I met your grandfather and fell in love. Then I had to get permission to get married, I had to get permission from the Captain to wear a wedding dress and next year my sister got married and I had to get permission to be a bridesmaid and I had to get permission to wear a bridesmaid dress. So, I mean, it was all strictly by the book. After V-E Day things quieted down on the East Coast. Very, very much. Everything was in the Pacific. Consequently we had nothing to do and I had been in three years, three months and thirteen days. And I was married. The only way you could get out at that time was to have enough points. Well you got points for your rank and you got points for the length of time you had been in and for, I forget some of the others. I had all but two points and I applied to get out and so I was discharged. I had to go to Washington to be discharged. And then after I had my first daughter, Janie, I applied for Permanent and I got my Honorable Discharge because you couldn’t be in and have a child under eighteen at that time. So then I just went on to be a mother and a housewife and I never really worked much after that. Until after your grandfather died and that's when I worked. AN: Was being a WAVES what you expected? NK: At that time it was a thrill, I mean, we had to wear uniforms for everything, you didn’t go out without. A uniform was the dress of the day, no matter where you went. It was a thrill, it really was, you felt like you were doing something. We all went in voluntarily, and it wasn’t like when, which war was it when the guys kept running up to Canada and all over the place because they didn’t want to go? AN: Vietnam? NK: Yes, the Vietnam War. When we went President Roosevelt said we need you and we went. It was just something you did and there was no discrimination or anything, it was an honor to be able to do it. And we as WAVES did our part by releasing men to do the same thing overseas. Because the men that we replaced were doing communications in wherever. AN: Where you hoping to see more of the world? NK: I think all of us did, my roommate, of course after I was married they said we could go to Puerto Rico or Hawaii. Well of course I wasn’t about to because I was married, my roommate went, she went to Hawaii. But those were our only choices, I think it was Puerto Rico or Hawaii and being married, your grandfather didn’t particularly want me to leave. It was nothing, it was just a volunteer thing, and it was a lot of Officer/Messenger mail. We had to fly a lot of Officer/ Messenger mail out of Philadelphia to Lakehurst and Cape May and different places in the state, [New Jersey]. Your Grandfather wouldn’t let me go because he wasn’t too sure of the planes. And when I finally did fly it was on a commercial plane. But there were never any accidents or anything, it was safe. But you were young and that was the way it was. It was an honor and everybody, of course, we wore our uniforms and our hats and everything all the time and we were proud to wear them. There was no, I have to put this thing on again, in fact, it was easier just putting a uniform on then it was to figure out what to wear today. AN: If you didn’t get involved with the WAVES what would you have done during the war? NK: I probably would have stayed working at Talon because they were doing war work, I mean, so many things that we wore or used needed zippers on them, so I probably would have stayed there and worked. But it was just thrilling, it was something you wanted to do and this other girl said come on, do it so I did. My folks weren’t unhappy about it, I don’t know of anybody from my town that went, I have met WAVES since then. AN: What was the country like during W.W.II? NK: Ha-ha, it was rather hectic, as I’ve told some of the classes I’ve spoken to, you kids, in fact your parents had no idea, we had blackouts all along the shore. When I lived in Philadelphia, my apartment was on the third floor and we had to have black curtains on all of the windows. You didn’t go out much at night and we had a lot of home parties. Someone would say come over after work and now work, you may have gotten out at midnight so we would have a party from midnight on. If you were working days they would say well come and have dinner. We did things like that. In fact, when your Grandfather and I started dating we went to different clubs and all. I was able to go home to Pittsburgh, I found that the best time to go home was when I got off at four and I had from four to midnight the second day so I could have an overnight so I would occasionally go home. But we went by train, we didn’t drive very far because of gas rationing and we had rations, rations for cigarettes, rations for booze. You went to the store and we had a butcher up the street and I would, John would talk to him and he would say, “I’m going to have meat.” “Well, what kind of meat?” “I don’t know.” So he knew I was in the service so he would save a piece of meat and we had meat and we were able to get cigarettes and booze. We would buy quite frequently from the officer’s mess in the Navy yard. But of course we all smoked at that time and whenever anyone had cigarettes you saw the line from here to there. So it was rationing and of course blackouts, you always had to have your black curtains on the windows at night ever in Philadelphia. And when your grandfather and I came back from our honeymoon they were having a strike, what they called PETE, the Philadelphia Transit System. All of the busses and streetcars and everything were on strike. The streets were crowded with Army and Police because it was iffy. We only stayed overnight then we were on our way to our honeymoon and by the time we came back it was over. But I mean, I don’t Amanda, as I said, things were rationed, we had ration books and you used them. You would get new ones and they would tear out the stamps you needed, and this one store we went to, since he knew I was in the service quite often he wouldn’t even ask for the stamps. If you had extra you gave them to somebody. AN: Do you think it was easier to deal with rationing because of the Depression? NK: I don’t know, the Depression didn’t really affect us per se, my folks weren’t on, you know. We always had food and of course, we always had milk. The life we led wasn't a high and mighty, but I don’t recall the depression ever hurting me. I was young and as I said, I went to college and that was in the thirties. I didn’t work and my father paid my way. AN: So you didn’t really feel the affects of the Depression? NK: No, not that I can recall of. AN: How did you meet my Grandfather? NK: He picked me up in a drug store. I said before we wore our uniforms everyplace, this one night I ran to the drugstore across the street, I don’t know what I went for, probably a magazine. And I just had on civilian clothes, but I had my raincoat on. I sat up at the counter and had a soda and this man sat down next to me and we got to talking and he found out I was in the service. I didn’t know who he was, he could have been someone checking why I wasn’t in uniform too, I realized later. And we got to talking and he asked if he could see me again and I said, well unfortunately this weekend I am going home to see my parents and he said that he would give me a call one day. And I got back and I didn’t hear from him and then he called and we went out. He would come home from work. Unfortunately he couldn’t get in the Army because he had a kidney condition. He worked for the US Rubber for awhile and he worked at the Signal Corps in Philly for a few years because he couldn’t get into anything. He tried the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Marines, everything and because of his medical condition they wouldn’t take him. So he had a civilian job in the Signal Corps so he would get home from work and sleep until I got off and we would have a date. Queer dates, odd hours. So finally we said, this is good and we got married. AN: Where did you get married? NK: In Springdale, we went out and had a lovely church wedding and a reception. It was funny, I had to pick a time I could get leave, we were only allowed five days leave a year at that time. We were entitled to ten or more, but we could only take five. So I had to figure out the two weekends I had off anyhow and fit in days between so I would have at least ten or twelve days. We used one of them to get married then the rest for a honeymoon. Came back to Philly and went to work. AN: Where was he from? NK: John was from Roselle Park, NJ and he was working in Philly at the time. He lived just down the street in an apartment with another young man and it was really quite handy. AN: Where did you go on your honeymoon? NK: His guidance counselor from high school had a cabin up in Northern NJ, Delaware Water Gap. She had a cabin and she offered to lend it to us for a few days so we could go up. As I told you, we got into Philadelphia and they were on strike so we just dropped our stuff from the wedding in the house and drove on up there, got there in the middle of the night and just had a lovely week, doing nothing, just relaxing. AN: I guess you couldn't really go out of the country? NK: No, we had no desire, this was fine. We just got away from everything and we came back and he went to work and I went to work. AN: Did he have a problem with you working? NK: No, he was very good about that because many a time and it was funny, I would come home at eight o’clock in the morning and go to bed and he would come home from work, he may already have gone to work and he’d come home and wake me up at four o’clock if I had to be at work at midnight and we’d eat. I mean, we worked it out and it went on for a couple of years that way. We had a lovely little apartment, and friends of ours lived down the hall, a girl who was in the service with me and her husband, Jim, who wasn't in any service, he had a thumb abnormality. They lived down at the other end of the hall and we palled around with them. The four of us could play bridge, well in fact, your grandfather and Jim didn’t play bridge, but Jane and I said you have to learn and they turned out to be really good bridge players. We did that a lot, we hung out together and we went to movies. Philadelphia had what they called the Del. Concerts and we went to those, it was an outdoor concert place. We didn’t have a car, we came up to visit Grandma in Roselle Park and we’d take the train and then we’d go back to Philly on the train on Sunday. |